Full Transcript‍

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slava (00:01.316)

Okay.

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slava (00:04.788)

Just wanna get the, all the questions. Okay, so we're gonna start though with like your background and all that stuff and I'm gonna ask you about annual investing or entrepreneurship, but all that stuff, okay?

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scott_lynn (00:18.67)

Okay, cool.

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slava (00:21.124)

Alrighty.

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slava (00:27.401)

Here we go.

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slava (00:32.904)

Hello and welcome to the show. We are super excited for today's guest. I've known Scott for a while. He is an incredible entrepreneur, runs in a great company in the art space, but knows way more beyond that. We've been trying to get him on for a while. And so thank you very much, Scott Lin. Welcome to the show.

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scott_lynn (00:51.059)

Thanks for having me. I feel like we're sitting at lunch.

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slava (00:55.56)

That's right, this will just be a casual conversation just like that. So just like to start it off, can you let us know about how you got into alternative investing, how did it all get started for you? What was your entry point?

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scott_lynn (01:09.014)

Yeah, I mean, look, I guess my entry point with ALTS is really art, specifically. And, you know, I've been collecting art for nearly 20 years, have a top 100 collection personally. Have always thought it's a really interesting asset class. You know, for me personally, it's been a core part of my portfolio.

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You know, I think as an entrepreneur you never really do sort of traditional things like, you know, basic sort of fixed income strategies or public equities, although I do a lot more of that now that I'm older, but you know, I think you're always looking for ways to find alpha and I think a lot of that exists in alts.

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slava (02:42.008)

Oh, so Scott, the audience really loves to know where it all got started. So can you let us know how you got into alternatives and alternative investing?

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scott_lynn (02:51.518)

Yeah, I mean, I guess my experience with alts is really art. So I've been collecting art for the past 20 years. It's always been a significant part of my portfolio overall. And that's really how I came up with the idea of Masterworks, was just looking at my own art collection, seeing how it is appreciated historically, and then thinking about how to productize that or make that available to other types of investors.

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slava (03:17.776)

When did you start investing in art?

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scott_lynn (03:21.01)

Young, so I had my first company when I was in high school. We created a game that became the most popular game on the internet. And it was this game called Tree Lude, for those who were in their mid-40s, I remember these Punch the Monkey banners on the internet. So that was me when I was a kid. And...

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slava (03:30.824)

What was that?

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scott_lynn (03:44.414)

Yeah, I made money really young and I don't know, like any kid, I guess, didn't really know where to put it. So I started buying expensive stuff like art. Um, and you know, learn.

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slava (03:52.776)

Do you remember your first real piece of art?

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scott_lynn (03:56.726)

Yes, I remember the first great painting I bought, which was a Marc Chagall painting titled Le Pont Neuf. That was the first great painting that I bought.

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slava (04:09.313)

And why that one at that time?

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scott_lynn (04:12.07)

You know, I mean, I was always looking at everything from an investment perspective. I thought I got a good deal on that painting. You know, I probably thought it was a better deal than it really, really was, but it's funny. I was at...

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I was at Sotheby's, I can't remember how many years ago, standing in a room and that painting was hanging there for sale. So whoever bought it or someone after them subsequently decided to sell it. It's a small world.

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slava (04:42.616)

Oh, so you don't own that painting that you bought a long time ago.

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scott_lynn (04:45.199)

No, no, I sold it a long time ago, yeah.

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slava (04:47.592)

So just for listeners, do you remember how much you paid for it when you bought it?

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scott_lynn (04:51.678)

I think I paid $325,000, which was a big number for me back then. I can't remember what it was selling for recently. I think it was over a million. I can't remember how much.

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slava (05:05.444)

Incredible. And you mentioned that you first had a startup and then you had the money to buy the art. So you have the game, was there other startups or was it one startup and then the art?

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scott_lynn (05:18.522)

You know, I started buying art really young, right? So I was buying art when I was, I think as young as 19, 20 years old. I kept buying and lots of collectors know this, but you know, your taste sort of evolves over time, just like anything. You know, I made a lot of mistakes. I think one of the typical mistakes that collectors make is they go out and they buy brand name artists who...

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they recognize, right? So a typical example of that would be Picasso. The thing that most people don't realize is that Picasso during his lifetime made 65,000 objects. So just buying a Picasso in itself isn't really significant. You really have to buy the right object.

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slava (05:54.398)

Wow.

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slava (06:01.448)

I had no idea, who has that much time to make 65,000 objects?

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scott_lynn (06:07.13)

If you ever see photos of the guy, I mean, you know, he's photographed in rooms, but there's just like hundreds of things around him, paintings, drawings, sculptures, like everything to him was art.

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slava (06:18.44)

Wow. So you were successful at a young age. Were you thinking to put any of that money into real estate, into debt, into other collectibles, sports cards, angel investing?

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scott_lynn (06:32.026)

Yeah, so I've always been an entrepreneur, right? So most of my wealth and most of the money I've invested has been in businesses that I've started over time. So that's always my primary focus. I think outside of that, it's pretty basic, right? I've always followed a barbell principle where when I have extra capital, I put it in super conservative stuff, and then I try to make bets where I can control the outcome or where I.

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domain expertise. That's usually how I approach things, how I still think about investing generally.

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slava (07:07.88)

Where does that conservative bucket go? Is that into real estate or what other types of investments go into that conservative bucket?

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scott_lynn (07:14.006)

You know, today I like, I,

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Look today's world is hard, right? Like I think it's very hard to figure out where to put money specifically But I think the quote-unquote conservative bucket if you just exclude fixed income and just conclude that it's generally uninteresting our indexed in index strategies that have Tax lost harvesting built into them. So I think since we're moving into an era of probably higher taxes I think loss harvesting strategies are interesting for certain people

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slava (07:49.268)

And this is specifically in the public markets you're referring.

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scott_lynn (07:52.478)

Yep. Yeah, so there's, you know, depending on whose product, that Goldman has a product that I've been using recently, which effectively tracks the S&P, but produces an extra 6, 7, 8% of alpha on an annualized basis and just losses that it kicks out.

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slava (08:13.577)

Oh, that's a great little nugget.

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scott_lynn (08:15.886)

So that's interesting in today's world. You know, maybe fixed income over the next two or three years becomes more interesting again. Yeah.

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slava (08:26.484)

And outside of like your own residences, do you look at real estate as investment opportunities or you kind of stick away, stay away from that?

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scott_lynn (08:32.842)

You know, I've personally never, I've done different real estate stuff in the past. I've personally never done that well on it. I don't think it's that interesting of an asset class. I think the tax benefits are interesting, right? So I think like our opportunity zone structures and they came out, massive tax benefits, that's interesting.

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But generally, I've never really seen consistent double-digit returns with real estate in an unlevered way. A lot of those higher returns are generated through leverage, and as most investors know, the problem with leverage is it introduces really binary outcomes. So in downside scenarios, you wind up with zero. And for returns that otherwise aren't that great, I've never found that to be that compelling.

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slava (09:20.084)

And then how about some of the more trendy stuff, crypto, NFTs, the Web3 stuff that's been happening the last few years?

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scott_lynn (09:28.53)

Yeah, so I've really come full circle on the crypto thing. So I think, as you know, I was a big buyer of crypto, let's call it five years ago, four and a half, five years ago. I've really moved away from crypto because I still, I struggle with the use cases, the lack of use cases that developed around the crypto community a lot.

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I hear today is the same conversation I heard four and a half, five years ago. And, you know, with NFTs, we can talk about that in more detail in the context of Masterworks. I think we think NFTs are interesting, you know, conceptually. We don't personally have a lot of experience with them. So we struggle with how to think about allocating to them. But I, you know, I think I'm more...

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bearish on Bitcoin today than I was five years ago.

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slava (10:30.1)

Wow, that's a hot take. You wanna expand a little bit on that?

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scott_lynn (10:34.658)

Well, it's just due to the lack of use cases, right? It's due to the lack of use cases and the very high correlation with the S&P. So I think if you go back to Finance 101, the definition of a strategic asset class, something that should be included as part of an investment portfolio is something that beats inflation and is non-correlated. If you look at Bitcoin, we've really seen huge degrees of volatility. I don't know what it's sitting at today. I think it was 30 something thousand yesterday or the day before, right?

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slava (11:03.988)

Yeah, it's in the 30s.

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scott_lynn (11:05.252)

It's in the 30s, yeah. So it's highly volatile. It kind of goes up, it goes down. Over long periods of time, I think you can conclude that it's definitely appreciating, but it's also highly correlated with public equities. So what role does it play in a portfolio that's distinctly different than public equities if it has a correlation factor of 0.6 or 0.7?

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I'm not sure if the additional volatility really makes sense in the context of a high correlation factor. I think the other thing I struggle with crypto generally is that I don't really believe that currencies are investments. I don't invest in the British pound. I don't invest in the euro. Currencies serve a purpose, but they're not necessarily an investment. So I think I just struggle with the role of Bitcoin more today than I did.

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five years ago.

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slava (12:03.74)

Yeah, and your point is well taken, which is Bitcoin, you know, born, I guess, in 2008, really has never seen a new bearer cycle, right? It started in a down market, but like, I guess you could say during the COVID time, it saw a short collapse, but you know, who knows what's going to happen in the next few quarters a couple of years. You have any sense from your perspective, given your many different exposures to asset classes and the public markets?

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what you think of the market for the next, let's call it three quarters or three years.

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scott_lynn (12:35.766)

You know, one of the great things about running Masterworks is that we have the leading research team in the art market, and we really are by far the most sophisticated people in understanding art as an asset class. So we get access to all the top research teams at every major private bank. And, you know, I think consensus across the board from the smartest people I know, which are those CIOs,

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is that public equities are going to return mid-single digits for the next decade. Now that sounds bad on the surface for a lot of people who are newer to investing and have kind of had double-digit returns for the past decade, but that's probably still going to be the best place to keep money even though the returns are going to be far less.

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slava (13:27.316)

Because the historical average is closer to 6 to 8 for the stock market.

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scott_lynn (13:31.534)

I think that's right. Yeah, I think over the past 25 years, it's slightly above 10 now, if I recall correctly. But I think you're right, depending on what period of time you're measuring. Yeah.

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slava (13:42.356)

How far back you go? Yeah. So the one thing we didn't click on is you obviously invest into the things that the companies that you can't control or you have a significant influence on, but how about angel investing? Any thoughts on that?

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scott_lynn (13:57.726)

I do limited amounts of angel investing, right? So I have less than 10 companies that I've actually put money into that I don't control. Most of those historically have not worked out, but many have. I think, I'm a super hands-on entrepreneur.

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scott_lynn (14:24.802)

being able to control the outcome of something just because I believe that early stage businesses take so many different pivots. And if you can't control those pivots, it's hard to control the outcome, right? Like you may get lucky and you may bet on an entrepreneur who's great, who just pivots around and figures that out and does really well, but.

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and it's hard. So I've personally myself, you know, always avoided it. And I think we see that at scale too, right? Like venture funds that are successful tend to be venture funds that have lots of bets since many don't work out, but the ones that do work out, work out in a meaningful way.

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slava (15:07.008)

And it sounds like you spend most of your focus on the art investments and then your startups. Is that fair?

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scott_lynn (15:14.43)

Yeah, I mean today it's really Masterworks. You know, I have a handful of businesses that are related to ad tech stuff or content stuff that we've started throughout the years that I still have, but my focus today is really entirely on Masterworks.

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slava (15:30.904)

That's a great segue. Let's double click on Masterworks and everything that you're accomplishing there. So for what it's worth, you basically have changed the game for investing into art, fractional ownership, being able to get into these huge paintings that otherwise people couldn't have gotten into. When did that idea start for you? Because obviously, I think you said 19 or 20 is when you started investing into art yourself. But when did that fractional concept come to mind?

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scott_lynn (15:56.01)

You know, it really goes back to your question about, you know, how I think about crypto. So when I was, when I was kind of heavy into crypto five years ago, I was thinking about all of these different crypto businesses, right? And we had lots of different ideas for different startups. I wasn't in a full-time operating role at the time. So I was kind of like, you know, we work with a handful of people that have worked with me in the past, kind of, you know, trying to come up with different ideas and.

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Masterworks originally was a blockchain idea. The idea was that we would take these paintings and we would effectively tokenize them, right? Like people think of these as NFTs today, but issue NFTs for shares, and then have them freely tradable. And there was a big law firm who you know and we won't name, it was giving opinions at the time that a lot of this stuff wasn't securities. So we got an opinion that it wasn't a security. We thought that...

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you know, paintings didn't meet what's called the Howie test, and that we could just tokenize paintings on blockchain. And we quickly within three or four months figured out that wasn't the case and realized that the scope of how to solve the problem was just much bigger than what we were originally anticipating. But it was such a cool idea. You know, we were so excited about it. We, we just kept incrementally working on it and, and eventually came up with this, this

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structure which was buy a painting, buy a multi-million dollar artwork.

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file it as a public offering with the SEC. So one painting sitting in a company that gets filed with the SEC is a public offering, sell shares in that individual work of art, and then eventually we've built out things like trading markets around that. But that was the very simple idea. How do you take these multi-million dollar assets that historically have appreciated quite well and make them investable?

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slava (17:56.208)

And you've been taking advantage of some of the most recent regulatory innovations as part of that, right? So could this be possible 20 years ago?

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scott_lynn (18:04.542)

Well, I think you know the answer to that question better than anyone. But I think Reg A in general, at least makes this possible for a lot of companies. Now, I got to say it, as you know, I mean, it's still not easy, right? I mean, I think at our holiday party.

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deck this year, we kind of reviewed some stats in the business. We did 700 and something SEC filings last year. Right? So I still…

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slava (18:34.56)

Reg A is the actual exemption that you're using, which allows for you to take the offering public for up to a $75 million offering, right? To both solicit and to go to unaccrediteds at the same time, accrediteds or unaccrediteds.

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scott_lynn (18:49.93)

Yeah, and that's what we do for every single painting. So, you know, we file that, we have other filings to support each of those offerings, but we're doing one of those now every five and a half days. So it's, you know, it's operationally very complex.

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slava (19:10.228)

So I'm gonna wanna double click in a second about actually how to pick good art because I'm the opposite of you. I don't think I know much about art, but let's just talk about like the results. I mean, you just raised at a unicorn level, right? A monster round. So how does that happen? Like, how'd you get there?

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scott_lynn (19:22.402)

Yeah.

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scott_lynn (19:28.726)

You know, I think, I mean, look, the business is interesting. If you subscribe to this idea that art is the largest asset class that's never been securitized, we like to compare art to venture and private equity, art's roughly a one and a half.

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trillion dollar asset class, venture and private equity is $3.5 trillion. The key distinction that we talk about is there's 9,000 firms that operate in venture and private equity, and there's only us that provide investment products and art. You very quickly understand just the magnitude of the opportunity and how much value can be created. So, you know, we think we're in the super early innings of an asset class that's going to be really

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scott_lynn (20:13.816)

a staple of a portfolio at some point, right? Like I think 10 years from now, 20 years from now, people will think about allocating art very similar to how they think about allocating real estate, public equities, or fixed income.

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slava (20:27.692)

You mentioned something interesting, which is you're one of the only players in town doing this. Why is that? Why is if the company, if the industry is doing so great and you're trailblazing it, why is there not more competition? Because it seems like in these other spaces adjacent to yours, there's more competition.

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scott_lynn (20:46.03)

I think it's really the asset class, right? Like the asset class is quite hard to navigate through. I mean, I spent 20 years kind of building my own collection and really creating a lot of those relationships in the art market and understanding how it works.

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I think it's part of it. For most people who do have that experience from the art market, they just don't understand finance generally. They don't understand how to really run a retail platform, kind of the customer acquisition dynamic associated with that. That's our best guess. We'll talk about the business, but this year, we should buy over a billion dollars in art. That's never really been done before. This scale.

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slava (21:32.404)

Wow, so in 2022 you'll acquire a billion dollars of art. And then sell that fractionally. That's amazing.

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scott_lynn (21:37.9)

Yeah.

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scott_lynn (21:42.962)

Yeah, so the business is growing quickly. And from an art market perspective, they've definitely never, never seen anything like that. But I think it's also becoming harder for people to compete with us because we just have such an information advantage that we're building, right? Like we see so much data now from the private market, even on what paintings are being offered to us for. I think last year we saw over $10 billion in art that was offered to us. We're buying two to 3% of what we see. Yeah.

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slava (22:11.912)

Just as context, you would know better than me how big is like Christie's in terms of how much art they sell.

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scott_lynn (22:18.954)

Well, it's very different because they sell a lot of art that we wouldn't consider investment grade.

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slava (22:25.18)

Got it. So if you just pull out the investment grade, would you know that or?

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scott_lynn (22:29.838)

I wouldn't know that off the top of my head. I mean, broadly you can think of the auction houses as doing somewhere between five and $10 billion a year, each an auction volume, not as an industry, but each individually. Christie's and Sotheby's individually, and then Phillips is a third, but a distant third, and then you sort of have auction houses in China and elsewhere.

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slava (22:36.561)

as an industry.

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slava (22:41.096)

Oh wow.

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slava (22:50.644)

So not everybody gets to learn about art investing from the boss. So I'm going to try to get a little one-on-one here for me and the listeners. So how do I start investing into art? I mean, obviously I could go on to masterworks.com and, you know, sign up, get all of that information. But you know, I have the CEO here and the founders. So give me some advice. How do I navigate this?

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scott_lynn (23:13.81)

Yeah, I mean, I guess there's a couple of things that are important to know about the art market, just fundamentals of art investing. So the first is that...

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Appreciation is correlated to recency, meaning if you look at art created after World War II, the past 75 years, that segment of the market is what is appreciating most fast right now. We define that as contemporary art. We measure that at roughly 14% a year for the past 20 years. So that segment is the most interesting segment. If you go back in time, you have impressionist and modern art, which varies between 7 and 10% a year. Then you go back centuries, artists like...

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Rembrandt and that segment of the market appreciates a 1 to 2 percent a year. So you have declining appreciation rate as you go back many generations in time. Now one of the things that's very interesting and we've never actually answered this question from a research perspective, but it's very interesting that we don't see depreciation rates in any segments of the art market, right? We see artists like Rembrandt effectively stop appreciating and appreciating inflation-like rates.

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that's depreciated. And I think that speaks to some of the store value characteristics in the asset class. But that's the first thing, right? So you generally want to be investing in art created after World War II in today's world. And then it's really next most important to look at the artist market. And different artist markets have different dynamics, but appreciation rate is most closely correlated to artist market. So if you get the artist wrong,

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even if you have an A++ example by a third tier artist, it's still not going to have a great return because that artist market just isn't performing as well. So.

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slava (25:07.304)

How am I determining a tier one versus tier three artist?

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scott_lynn (25:12.246)

Well, we look at lots of things. So we look at, obviously, the appreciation rate of that artist market overall. We look at the liquidity of that artist market, which in our world means how many collectors are actually buying paintings by that artist. One of the things we do is we send interns to evening sales and they count the number of bidders in the room and then they associate the bidders to each individual painting that's sold so we know how many bidders are on each individual work.

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And then we look at other signals, like cultural significance signals, what museums are collecting, which artists, how long has the artist market been in place, what's the turnover, how are average prices moving. So there's lots of data like that helps inform how we think about the market. Today we're only buying works in 55 artist markets. I think that list will go up in size this year, but it's still a relatively small subset.

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slava (26:09.012)

When you say artist marketer, you're referring to a specific artist. So 55 artists that you focus on at Masterworks. And so does that mean I should only be focusing on 55? Those 55?

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scott_lynn (26:12.071)

Yeah, like Picasso.

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scott_lynn (26:16.813)

Yeah.

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scott_lynn (26:23.41)

It's definitely a good indication if we're buying it, but it's hard to know which of those we continue to buy versus which we're no longer buying.

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slava (26:32.328)

Got it. And do you pick those 55 because they're going to have the best returns, they're the safest, the combination of both? Why not number 56 through 106?

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scott_lynn (26:45.71)

I mean, we're increasing the number of markets, but I do think in today's world, investors tend to be very headline return driven. So let me use an example. So one of the artists that I think is super interesting, which we've only done one offering of, is actually Monet. And Monet returns, I think his appreciation rate is somewhere around 7% per year.

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But when you look at the standard deviation returns or his volatility, it's incredibly low, meaning his return is very predictable, and therefore his risk adjusted return or Sharpe ratio is above one.

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which we think is super interesting, right? So you can take very little risk in investing in Monet's market, but your headline return is still only going to be, call it 7%. We still think that's a super interesting market for investors, we just don't really have a lot of those investors on the platform today that are looking for very low, relatively low risk, low return type profiles.

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slava (27:58.996)

usually they want a little bit more return for quote unquote their risk.

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scott_lynn (28:03.403)

Yep.

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slava (28:04.848)

Got it. So how much money or what percentage of net worth should I be putting into art?

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scott_lynn (28:12.282)

It's a good question. There really is only one third party outside of Masterworks that's analyzed this question, which was Citi in 2015. Our research team works with them. We're hoping that they publish an updated asset allocation model soon. But Citi at that point concluded somewhere between 1.4 and 4% with two caveats. One is that they looked at all art. So they included Impressus and Modern,

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investors, like the lower return segment that we discussed. And two, they give a range, and they really just said depending on the investor's tolerance for illiquidity, they should move between 1.4 or 4 percent, 4 percent meaning they have a high tolerance for illiquidity.

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So that's, I think, reasonable guidance. I think this is an asset class that's generally 5% or less. We have investors that allocate more, but that's probably the right way for people to think about it.

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slava (29:17.916)

You raised a great point, which is liquidity timelines. How should I be thinking about art? Is that a three month investment, a three year investment, a 30 year investment? How should I be thinking about it?

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scott_lynn (29:27.562)

Yeah, we tell people to think of it as a three to 10 year investment horizon for us to sell the painting. Now, that's changing a little bit because we have secondary markets, so we have people trading securities and paintings just like you would trade chairs and anything else. So we'll probably soften that in the future, but right now we're...

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telling people to still assume that they can hold the investment for three to ten years and plan on that in terms of the horizon.

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slava (29:58.62)

Great. I know the sports card industry a little bit better, and in sports cards, there's a number of different places where you can try to find third-party information to try to make your decisions on, whether it's evaluating eBay, whether it's this group called PSA, there's BGS, there's these various grading services, et cetera. Is there such a thing in art where I can...

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you know, find this information outside of, obviously you're probably gonna say Masterworks has it, but that I could try to find this independent third party information.

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scott_lynn (30:32.97)

Yes, the cool thing about the art market is half of the art market trades at public auction. So you have a really big data set that you can use to understand how the market is performing over time. The very first company to kind of publish that data in a subscription format was this company called Artnet, which still exists. So you can go to Artnet, you can create a subscription account, search historical price records for paintings.

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slava (31:01.192)

Artnet.com.

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scott_lynn (31:03.126)

There's one that we actually like a bit better called Art Price. We just think the UX is better, it's a little bit more thoughtful in how things are presented. So that's another one that we recommend, but either of those are good to get started with the art market.

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slava (31:21.34)

And riffing off of that, what kind of blogs do you like? Who do you follow on Twitter? What do you follow on Instagram? What do you read? Just, you could say whatever content you use to soak up your information, to navigate your decisions around art. You know, if we wanted to try to be like Scott, what are the things that we can be exposing ourselves? Even your ArtNet and ArtPrice is already great.

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scott_lynn (31:43.55)

Yeah, I mean, look, for the art market, it's really hard. There's not material out there. And just to put that in reference, right, we're really the only firm that does robust index construction on the asset class.

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You know, there's been a handful of other people, academics and otherwise, that have tried in the past, but we're really the only ones that maintain that index with a high degree of integrity from a data perspective. So there's not a lot. There's a report that Deloitte publishes on the art market generally on an annualized basis. It's not really on investing in art. It's more about the size of the market, the players in the market. It's a several hundred page report. There's a firm called Arttactic,

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which we like as well, that has other types of research reports. But you know, the art market really historically has been catered to ultra wealthy collectors, right? Like those are the people who are buying and selling these one to one hundred

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paintings and there hasn't been a lot of information built around how to think about it as an asset class, how to think about it as part of a portfolio, how to think about it as part of an asset allocation model. We're doing a lot of that work for the first time.

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slava (32:59.56)

So if you weren't talking to me, a novice, but actually talking to somebody else who knew a lot about art, and you wanted to show off and impress them about where your predictions are, about where the art market is headed in the next couple of few years, what would you be saying to them?

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scott_lynn (33:13.802)

Well, we believe that our prices are correlated to growth in the top 1% on a global basis, right? So if you believe that the top 1% are getting wealthier, you know, the new billionaire creation dynamic, then you probably believe that our prices are going up.

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I also think in a world where fixed income continues to pay close to zero, as you know, people are looking at alts, I think, in a big way, really unlike any other time in history. These asset classes are just more and more interesting for all types of investors. When we think about the risk to that thesis, like what causes our prices to go down, it's really things that hurt the top 1% on a global basis.

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In 2016, either because of Brexit or capital controls in China, our prices dropped independent of the S&P, which was up that year. So we think those two factors potentially had an impact on the top 1% living in those parts of the world, which hurt our prices. So it's really just a bet on global wealth creation at the very top end of that 1%.

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slava (34:32.072)

But if I was gonna try to put you on the spot and say three years out, not a long time horizon, three years out, what are three artists you suggest we keep an eye out for?

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scott_lynn (34:42.806)

Well, the most, I mean, three artists that we like, you know, it's a good question. I mean, we obviously think Basquiat's market is really the best, probably the best risk-adjusted market there is. He's been appreciating between 18 and 19% for nearly or approximately 20 years. That's pretty incredible. His volatility is relatively low.

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slava (35:08.084)

Absolutely.

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scott_lynn (35:11.178)

So we think that's a really interesting market. And then, you know, we'd like lots of...

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mid-career living artists. We've frankly been buying a lot of Richter lately, who's obviously not mid-career, but is still living. He's in his 90s. We've been buying a lot of Kusama lately. She's also, I believe, in her 90s. We really like her market. We bought a Carmen Herrera, who I think is 101 years old now. So, you know, a lot of these living artists that we're buying are living, but barely.

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scott_lynn (35:47.788)

So those are some of the ones we like right now.

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slava (35:50.372)

Awesome. Well, thank you so much. This has been an incredible, incredible conversation. You've really given us a whole range of discussion topics from one telling us about 65,000 Picasso pieces to saying it here that you are bearish on Bitcoin and that you gave us a great hint as to how to get better at tax harvesting using a fund out there and giving us tricks like ourprice.com or going after the Basquiat. So thank you very much, Scott, for joining us and you know.

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We look forward to the next time you come on.

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scott_lynn (36:22.318)

Thanks for having me.